April 20, 2011

Thoughts on BD in J-tubes.

Lately more and more people have been asking about doing BD through J-tubes.  Being true to my original philosophy of this being a place where I try and collate stuff and try to sum up the thoughts flying around out there, here's what I've heard (and thought) on the subject.  (Remember, nothing here - or anywhere - is gospel truth.  It is opinion, and even things we call fact are opinion.  Everyone once knew for sure that the earth was the centre of the universe, right?)

BD through a J-tube can certainly be done, but as with all things, not necessarily by everyone.

I can't eat orally, or indeed swallow at all, and quite a while back I was very interested in questions around whether I was missing out on some vital part of digestion by lack of saliva getting on down there.  Turns out, not really.  A little more recently, much has been discussed about PPIs (proton pump inhibitors - medicines like Prevacid and Nexium) and their possible effect on digestion by changing the acidity of the stomach. The jury's out on that.  This was around the same time as a nutritionist enlightened me to the school of thought about not consuming water while you eat (or feed) because it dilutes the stomach secretions - acids and enzymes mostly.  I got to thinking, and asking, and what I wanted to know was: what are these secretions like saliva, stomach enzymes and acids actually doing to the food we ingest?

Turns out, they're essentially doing what my Vitamix does.  Saliva is to help the food be chewed and go down the esophagus.  The enzymes are like little keys that 'unlock' proteins and other components into smaller molecules, and the acids attack larger clumps of chewed-up stuff and turn it into a more liquidy substance that the intestines can deal with more easily.  Now the Vitamix doesn't quite do the whole job the enzymes do, but I'd say it gets you about halfway there.  A high-powered blender with blunt blades like the Blendtec or the Vitamix not only liquidizes food far better than your jaw muscles, tongue, teeth and stomach acids can, but smashes apart cell walls of both animal and vegetable tissue to release nutrients locked inside those cells.  Cooking can do a similar thing, but often destroys much of the nutrients in the process.  Enzymes do this work in our stomachs.

So here's my hypothesis: That may blends made in a high-powered, high-speed blender are probably pre-digested enough to be fed into a J-tube, with possibly a better chance of success the higher (ie towards or in the duodenum) the J is placed.

If it were me, there would be some things I'd steer away from,  mainly things that need our stomach acids to neutralise or curdle.  Dairy, fish, shellfish, chocolate, tomatoes and maybe broccoli and potato too.  Then again, it's entirely possible that all these would do just fine.

People are a little more nervous of J-tubes for other reasons too.  They sometimes have no internal retainer (in the case of separately sited J-tubes, as opposed to GJs) so are more prone to slippage, leakage and anecdotally anyway to infection.  I'm willing to bet they're a bit more uncomfortable to have than a G-tube - anyone?  And their ends just dangle there inside, and so you can never be 100% sure exactly where they are.  But really, I think these are not cause to be any more nervous about what food you put down there.

There are not very many people doing J-tube feeds with BD right now.  More are coming to light though, and as I discover more personal examples, I can add them in here.  I really don't see any risk in trying a basic, easy-to-digest blend, preferably of vegetable substances (veges, fruits, grains) first that are known to be tolerated, and going as one would for an infant eating for the first time; add one new ingredient at a time, and go slowly.

If I had a J-tube, I'd give it a go.  But that's the thing isn't it?  I could also just jump in to BD with my g-tube because if anything 'went wrong', I knew I would deal with it, it was my body, I could feel things - not like a watchful, nervous parent or carer.  That's harder, no doubt.  Still, there are people that do it, and doctors that say there's no reason you couldn't.  The human body is after all amazingly adaptable, and we were built for food.

Food for thought!  It's worth remembering that medicine is a very conservative institution.  The status quo is 'safe', and of course patient safety (and doctor's safety too of course) is paramount.  There are no incentives to question the things they've always been trained to say no to.  Some doctors say go for it, give it a try, can't hurt.  Others say no, no way, never.  We only discover through trying.  But it's you who must decide whether to try or not.


April 19, 2011

*Sigh* - hopefully the last word on this.

This post is for public information purposes.  It may be reproduced, quoted or disseminated by anyone for any purpose.  Words which are not mine have been quoted with permission or are from documents clearly labelled as being for public consumption.

EDIT - UPDATE: This post has been very slightly edited for better grammatical use and to make some statements of mine read more clearly.  Nothing of factual substance has been altered.  Importantly, I have also removed an illustrative quote from Jon Stewart (of The Daily Show) that lampooned 'birthers' - those who insist the President Barack Obama is not a natural born US citizen.  The quote was for dramatic comparison, but did of course imply a judgement of mine on birthers' beliefs.  They have a right to their beliefs, regardless of my judgement, and I apologise for any offense as none was intended.  Ms Marino is also entitled to her beliefs.  The problem here is that she insists I share them and is making legal claims that I and everyone else do so.  

OK, so I've done all I could in the cause of reason.  I have communicated clearly.  Offered evidence, given references, dates etc.  I am reminded that there are those who so badly want to believe a given thing, that no amount of evidence or persuasion will change their minds.  So here we are.

For those not yet aware of the contretemps which has erupted lately around the use of the term 'blenderized diet', in short, Lesley Diane Marino claims to have invented it, and the concept, sometime following the birth of her daughter in 2001.  She had Facebook shut down a not-for-profit community assistance Facebook page called 'Blenderized Diet' by falsely claiming in a legal instrument that her intellectual property rights had been breached.  I was a co-administrator of that page.  Lesley has personal issues with myself and a co-administrator, and I should point out that almost all the 'factual' assertions about Beverly Hanset Burch in the text of Ms Marino's Public Release below are refuted by Beverly herself.  Beverly is choosing now, as shall I be to the extent that I can, to starve this confected drama of oxygen.

Please see HERE and also HERE for the details and responses to this story, so I don't have to repeat myself.

Ms Marino today emailed the below message, unedited by me:

April 18, 2011

For Public Release and Information:

Blenderized Diet is a concept that began from a need. A need to feed my 
daughter, Nina, in a healthy and nutritious manner despite her various 
health issues. At the time my daughter was born, no alternatives existed 
for feeding tube patients besides formula. Feeding my daughter a 
formula, full of chemicals and non-foods, was unacceptable to me. I 
spoke to various doctors and nutritionists to inquire about alternatives 
and solutions. No one was aware of any other way besides Compleat, which 
had too many chemicals. I decided to formulate my own recipes for my 
daughter. I desired to assist other individuals, who were experiencing 
the same challenges as myself, so on the last day of November 2005, I 
started the Blenderized Diet Yahoo Group.

Sometime in early 2006, I saw a post on the Total Peripheral Nutrition 
list. Beverly Hanset-Burch was looking for help with Bonnie in regard to 
a feeding tube issue. I emailed Beverly personally to aid her and share 
Blenderized Diet with her. Ultimately, Beverly incorporated Blenderized 
Diet into her daughter's daily feeding. In early 2007, I invited Beverly 
to become a co-moderator of the Blenderized Diet Yahoo Group, and she 
accepted. In May of 2007, I commissioned a web designer to develop 
BlenderizedDiet.com and I purchased the domain name. Blenderized Diet 
dot com was up and running by June 2007.

In the last two years, Beverly Hanset-Burch and I have had various 
conversations about incorporating forums into the web site, but neither 
of us knew how to accomplish this task. I was open to hearing more about 
the concept of putting forums on www.BlenderizedDiet.com 
<http://www.BlenderizedDiet.com/>, and I planned to add the forums in 
the next 6 months. During the last two to three years, I have desired to 
assist all individuals who are on some form of feeding tubes and are 
unable to make their own blends. I have expressed this desire to Beverly 
on several occasions and she thought it was not possible. Despite her 
lack of support, I have chosen to move forward with this endeavor.

In Spring of 2010, I created the Blenderized Diet Facebook page. On Feb 
02, 2011 Beverly created BlenderizedDiet.net with forums, and she 
purchased Blenderized Diet dot org. I sent correspondence to Beverly 
indicating to her that this was unacceptable. She has not taken down the 
dot net, and refuses to accept the idea that she has been unethical. In 
April of 2011, I was made of aware that Beverly or those associated with 
Beverly Hanset-Burch formed a Facebook page titled Blenderized Diet, 
which is the exact same name as my company Facebook page. I informed 
Facebook of this duplication, with supporting dates and documents.

My wish, desire and intention is to bring health, nutrition and wellness 
to all individuals, especially those with special needs. I will continue 
to uphold this intention by progressing forward despite those who wish 
to stifle this desire with unprofessional actions. Blenderized Diet is a 
concept that was created out of this desire. Additionally, educating 
medical professionals is essential in order for all individuals to have 
access to this information. I am in support of education and information 
access for all individuals, but use of the term "Blenderized Diet" in 
titles, Facebook pages, web pages, product labels and otherwise without 
permission is in direct threat of the intentions of the Blenderized Diet 
concept. This type of behavior interferes with the health and wellness 
of those who need access to feeding tube alternatives. The energy it 
takes to continue this negative behavior could be used to aid and assist 
individuals, parents and guardians who are in need. I will continue to 
devote my time and energy to helping others.


Lesley Diane Marino

Perhaps Ms Marino truly believed at the time she was seeking help with her daughter's feeding issues that prior to canned formula there was no tube feeding.  However, ample demonstration of evidence to the contrary has been offered (see email to her and Facebook below for examples) and my time on what she considers 'her' Yahoo! group gave me many opportunities to participate in discussions about the wisdom of the older nurses in many hospitals who well remember pureeing foods for those with feeding tubes.  I believe Ms Marino is in fact well aware that enteral feeding has been done with pureed food for a very long time - centuries in fact, and that the term 'blenderized diet' has been in common usage and published in medical literature for this purpose since at least 1952, which is before she was born.  I make no public judgement on whether Ms Marino is attempting to assert that these facts are false based on her own beliefs (which would be clinically referred to as delusional behaviour I believe) or is attempting an outright lie.

I have a document in my possession (marked by the author as not for public reproduction) written by Ms Marino where she asserts exclusive rights to all use of the term 'blenderized diet' and gives no party permission to use it without her express consent.  In another document she also claims proprietary rights over 'all associated recipes'.

Here is an email I sent to Facebook and Ms Marino in an attempt to solve the problem of our Facebook page having been taken down.

[Please note below the original notice of suspension as required by Facebook when responding to this allegation. Below that your response to me.]

Hello all, 

I have more carefully read the terms and conditions under which Ms Lesley Diane marino has made an allegation of infringement of her intellectual property rights, causing the Blenderized Diet Faceook page to be taken down.  Here is a most relevant section, required to be acknowledged before appending one's electronic signature.

Are you the owner of such rights or a person legally authorized to act on behalf of the owner?
This must have been answered 'yes', as to do otherwise woul render the complaint ineffective.  Following is this:
By submitting this notice, you declare under penalty of perjury that all of the information contained in this notice is accurate and that the use of your intellectual property described above, in the manner you have complained of, is not authorized by the rights owner, its agent, or the law.
This must have been agreed to, as to have done otherwise would render the complaint invalid.

Lesley Diane Marino made a complaint to you alleging that she is the owner of the intellectual property rights to the term 'blenderized diet'.

I formally contend that Ms Lesley Diane Marino has no legal or indeed any sort of rights to the term 'blenderized diet' as she has stated to me and several others was in fact the complaint she made to Facebook.  She has thus made an invalid complaint.  Ms Marino has demonstrably perjured herself by asserting rights to a common usage term, and Facebook is essentially complicit in the damages thus done by failing to recognize or respond adequately to my and my co-administrators statements and evidences in this.  Your policy is effectively making you an accomplice to Ms Marino's unlawful and malicious actions.

I offer as evidence the following links:

This last link shows a published instance of the term Ms Marino is claiming legal ownership of, under penalty of perjury, dating to 1952 which is I am led to believe a date prior to her birth.

A search of the US trademarks and copyrights shows no such term as 'blenderized diet' being owned by any party, so Ms Marino's claim to be the 'owner of such rights' is shown to be a legal fiction in entirety.  It would be beyond the ability of any reasonable person to make a claim to ownership of such a common term as 'blenderized diet', today returning 43,000 hits on Google and extant in published literature since at least 1952 regardless of the fact that the concept itself predates written history.

I also contend that Facebook's application of Ms Marino's (patently false) claim has been unfair, prejudicial and contributory to the malicious nature of Ms Marino's actions in this matter.

As Ms Marino claims to own the intellectual property rights to the term 'blenderized diet', if Facebook is to accept this as the case (and the implication of Facebook's having taken action against one page allegedly in breach of this so far shows that they do in fact tacitly accept it) then it is the duty of Facebook to properly protect Ms Marino's interests as a user who has complained of IP infringement to remove any and all mentions or usages of the term 'blenderized diet' from Facebook.  I have here further documentary evidence that Ms Marino is making this specific claim and further expressly forbidding any party to use the term 'blenderized diet' without her consent, should you require it, but I contend that her legally binding complaint with you in the first instance negates such a need.

To properly fulfill Facebook's policy of protecting individual's intellectual property rights upon receipt of a complaint such as Ms Marino's Facebook must either 
a) remove any and all instances of usage of the allegedly breaching term from every page, personal profile, advertisment displayed, post, comment or anywhere else it may appear on Facebook or stand derelict of infringing Ms Marino's claimed rights themselves
b) by failing to do so acknowledge that the claim has no merit, and reinstate any page taken down under the aegis of this demonstrably false, scurrilous and malicious claim clearly made whilst said party perjures herself in law.

I request Facebook immediately and properly uphold Ms Marino's rights as per her claim and your policies and accept that by so doing in the light of incontrovertible evidence that such a claim is false and uttered in perjury OR immediately reinstate the page 'Blenderized Diet' and undertake to treat with utmost caution any further such claims by Ms Marino.

I look forward to a very speedy and satisfactory resolution on behalf of myself and my fellow co-administrators as cc'd in to this email along with Ms Marino herself.


Eric Aadhaar O'Gorman.

[Text of original notification from Facebook below]


We have removed or disabled access to the following content that you have posted on Facebook because we received a notice from a third party that the content infringes or otherwise violates their rights:

[Page: Blenderized Diet]

We strongly encourage you to review the content you have posted to Facebook to make sure that you have not posted any other infringing content, as it is our policy to terminate the accounts of repeat infringers when appropriate.

If you believe that we have made a mistake in removing this content, then please visit http://www.facebook.com/help/?page=1108 for more information.

The Facebook Team


Thanks for your email. As you know, we received a claim of alleged rights infringement regarding the removed content. Per Facebook's Statement of Rights and Responsibilities, users are prohibited from posting infringing content on the site.

If you believe that we have made a mistake in removing this content, then please contact the complaining party directly with the following information to resolve your issue:

Notice #: 255582578
Contact Information:
Name - Lesley Diane Marino
Email -NinaBean@tampabay.rr.com

If both parties agree to restore the reported content, please ask the complaining party to contact us via email with a copy of the agreement so that we can refer to the original issue. We will not be able to restore this content to Facebook unless we receive explicit notice of consent from the complaining party.

Thanks for contacting Facebook,

User Operations

(end of email communication)

Now I invite you, dear reader, to draw your own conclusions.  My colleagues and I have simply started a new Facebook page with a different title - Blenderized Food For Tubies, continue to run blenderizeddiet.net and continue - along with everyone else familiar with the subject matter in the English language - to use the term 'blenderized diet'.

Unless and until some legal instrument is produced by Ms Marino proving that she owns and has sole claim to use of the term 'blenderized diet' we will continue to ignore her.  We have done some due diligence by checking copyright and trademark databases and have found nothing registered as 'blenderized diet'.  We will continue our work to freely share and facilitate the free sharing of important health information and support, unless and until some other action by Ms Marino interferes in a way that would qualify as harassment or another breach of our rights.

Please, let this be the end of a pathetic and pitiful saga.  For her sake as much as ours.

April 16, 2011

Sale! Sale! Sale! Ads - the results.

Many, many people responded to my question about putting ads on this site.  Here's what you said:

You said OK, we get it, go for it, thanks for asking, and it would be nice if they weren't horrible flashy ads that annoy or pop up.  No-one objected in the slightest.

You also said many, many kind things, which out of modesty I shall not repeat here.  But you know who you all are, and what you said, so thank you.

I've been rather busy the last few days, as most of you will know, with one thing and another, or I'd have managed to get the ads up sooner.  In a self-interested way this would have been good as the traffic here went THROUGH THE ROOF the last two days.  So, yes, thanks.  Google ads for now, as I work on a better arrangement later.  I don't know how it will work out, they won't reveal their payment structure anyway, but I do know I receive tiny amounts by you just being here, and more if you click the ads.  But please don't click the ads if you don't want to go to those places.  Google apparently are very sensitive to 'click fraud' and if there are too many clicks they just stop paying me.  Yes, their motto is 'don't be evil'.  Still, I am looking for better alternatives soon.

Thanks for you continued support.

April 14, 2011

Help Save Lesley and BD FB page!

Well, it turns out yesterday's suppositions were correct.  Here is the text of an email received from Lesley Diane Marino after several attempts to get a reply:

To Whom it May Concern:

  This letter is in response to the overwhelming concern in regard to the Blenderized Diet entity.  As many of you know, I developed and began Blenderized Diet in 2001 for my daughter, Nina.  The creations and development of Blenderized Diet includes the term "Blenderized Diet" and all associate recipes.  I started the Blenderized Diet Yahoo support group in 2005 in an effort to assist other families in the same situation as myself.  Over the years, Blenderized Diet has grown, and I have chosen to take it to the next level and form it into a business entity.  As some of you may not know, Beverly Hanset-Burch has attempted to take Blenderized Diet as her own by purchasing URL's under this name and creating a Facebook page as well.  These actions are unacceptable from a business perspective.  The actions that I have taken in response are to protect my business interests and should be viewed as such.

  I respectfully request that any and all comments or concerns regarding Blenderized Diet be kept on topic, and business issues be directly addressed to me via email, and not on Facebook, forums, causes.com, or groups.  I further request when using term 'Blenderized Diet' for business purposes my written permission be obtain.

  Blenderized Diet was established to bring healthy options to individuals who receive nutritional support though a feeding tube.  I am here to continue that goal.


Lesley Diane Marino

As you can see, Lesley is claiming ownership of a term in common usage for over a decade, a time frame that goes infinitely further back than the birth of her daughter Nina, for whom Lesley believes she 'invented' the concept of calling food made in a blender for tube feeding a Blenderized Diet.  It would be like me stuffing ground meat in a cylindrical skin casing, selling it as sausages, and many years later trying to assert I own the word sausage.  For those of you unfamiliar with sausages, they have been around for millenia.

Facebook has, as per their policies, taken down our Blenderized Diet page due to her complaint of infringement on her IP rights.  FB policy does not need proof or example, only an allegation.  It cannot be reinstated unless Lesley agrees that it can be.  Which is why I have started the campaign to get everyone on the planet to email Lesley at the email address above, cc Facebook's IP department on ip@fb.com, and try and get this resolved.

Otherwise, it's going to mean legal action, which would likely destroy Lesley financially.  We have lawyer volunteers dedicated to a good cause.  She is out there in the cold, on her own.  But such is dharma, I feel.  I have compassion and empathy, but this is a dangerous precedent.

Every single person behind those 41,600 Google hits you get when searching for 'Blenderized Diet' and now anyone who dares to publish a recipe for food in a blender, according to her email, is liable to have action taken against them by Lesley.

OK, common sense says this may not happen.  Common sense also says we can just start another FB page with a different name, and publicize it widely.  But people search for 'blenderized diet'.  Why?  Because that's what everyone's been calling it since long before Lesley got in the game.  And there's also the danger that lesley will very simply do this again, regardless of what we call it.  She has only to allege, and FB must act and take down the page; thus depriving all the good people seeking and offering support for each other, seeking no profit or personal gain of their ability to help one another.  If it weren't taking place under the aegis of the Facebook terms of use, it would be impossible to do.

Lesley has clearly behaved in a legally criminal manner.  She has injured my good name and reputation with her allegations that I have 'stolen' from her by infringing her intellectual property rights.  There are myriad legal avenues fr redress and it may come to pass that Lesley is dragged through the courts and the media, all to sign a simple agreement that she does not any longer assert a singular right to the term 'Blenderized Diet' or any rights to 'any associated recipes'.

Please help.  Email her and ask her nicely, and cc Facebook in.  Maybe they'll change their rules if we get thousands of people doing it.  They are already across the information, and are currently just sitting on their hands.

Please help, and help Lesley too.

April 13, 2011


I have a sad story to tell today.

When I checked my emails as usual this morning, there were as always a bunch from Facebook, but one which was from Facebook - Facebook.. I nearly binned it as spam but luckily hesitated, for it was a notice that a new Facebook page of which I am co-administrator - so new that I haven't even linked it here yet - had been suspended.

The email told me that a third party had alleged we had infringed their intellectual property rights.

Clearly, we have done no such thing.  The new page in question is an offshoot of a forum I co-administer, blenderizeddiet.net and had in 4 days gained something like 126 members.  It was called, as you might guess, Blenderized Diet, and had as its tagline 'real food for real people' a version of an old saying coined by our site's founder many years ago.  Suddenly, these many people very excited to have a communication and connection nexus that suited them - not everyone likes the forum or blog thing - were extremely upset. As was I and my cohorts.

Facebook does not name the third party, but sadly our thoughts immediately identified a prime suspect.  This person has been making life difficult and saying erroneous and hurtful things about one of my colleagues and previously made a huge fuss about owning the concept or term 'blenderized diet'.  They were most upset when my colleague purchased the freely available, never-before-registered domain name blenderizeddiet.net, as this person owns a similar domain name.

'Blenderized diet' is a term in common usage both in the medical community and the wider community, most especially in the tube feeding circle. A Google search just then revealed 41,600 returns.  We use it because people know what it means.  It needs to be said that no material on the site is sourced from any copyright or trademark protected source.  Categorically, no person's IP rights have been infringed in any way whatsoever. How much could one do in just 4 days anyway?

Naturally, we must assume a person innocent until shown to be otherwise.  The suspected person in question has been asked directly a number of times and has yet to reply to most of those questions and has declined to comment on the matter in the one instance I know of where a response was had at all.  But still, refusal to deny does not a confirmation make, and it could be a rogue person with a grudge or even a corporate agent seeking to nip in the bud what might well be a powerful movement away from the mass purchasing of their products, as happens now.  A flattering thought, yes, and really quite unlikely.  Occam's Razor, and all that.

The sad part is all the innocent bystanders.  The page was acclaimed and lauded instantly and had already made a positive difference to quite a few people - it doesn't take much sometimes!  They have had their new support rug pulled from under their feet.  If it is this main 'suspect', then the irony is profound.  This is a person who started their own groups and their own practice in reaching out and helping others, advocating for real food for tube feeding.  And they may have just acted selfishly, destructively, and ultimately to their own detriment.  Word travels, people make their own mind up, and usually those who clothe their ill intentions in supposedly good works are always found out in the end.

In the end, I trust that this will make the tube feeding support community stronger, more committed to inclusiveness and sharing, and foster a move forward into a way that eschews petty personal power politics, and focuses on what each of us can do to help one another, and to accept help.

Maybe that's what this complainant - whoever she or he is, needs - our compassion and help.  Sometimes of course, the only compassionate way forward with a member behaving damagingly to the herd is to ostracize.  I hope it doesn't have to come to that.

Be strong, love your communities, and help lovingly expose those who would destroy good works to the light of full disclosure.  Nothing disinfects like sunshine.


April 9, 2011

I need to ask you just one question.

Well, there's this thing that's been kicking around as an idea for a while now, in a "should I or shouldn't I" sort of way, and this bugs me.  People who read my other personal blog will know exactly why anything involving the word 'should' bugs me.  But the should sort of needs to be there I feel (or so I think) because it involves you.  Please spend less than  2 minutes of your life ticking a box and if you want, telling me your thoughts on a prosaic, but important-to-me subject.  It's to do with the very future of this site.

The link below takes you to a third-party site, and no personal information is even asked for, or collected.  Thanks.


Really, thank you.



Great new link for parents....

Tubey momma and all-round good person Tracy Nagy runs and curates a great site called Feeding Tube Awareness.  I follow it along on Facebook and have noticed lately a lot of chat and interest ther about Blenderized Diets etc.  And guess what, she's gone and made her own BD page, and it's awesome!

Lots of links to useful videos and other sites and great parents-eye-view articles on doing BD.  Check it out, you'll be glad you did!

Go here for the goodness:



April 8, 2011

New Tubey Kids Book!

My tubey mom friend Rhiannon has finally released her new range of kids books called My Tubey.  They're basically children's storybooks with a character that tubey kids (and adults for that matter) can totally relate to.  Excellent colourful illustrations and it emits a wonderful aura of joy and playfulness.  Glad someone's finally done it and I couldn't have imagined a better job.  There's two right now, My Tubey: A Day In the Life Of a Tube Fed Girl and a matching boy's one.

Check out Rhiannon's debut efforts right here: